Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/19/1993 01:00 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                        February 19, 1993                                      
                            1:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Rep. Brian Porter, Chairman                                                  
  Rep. Jeannette James, Vice-Chair                                             
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Gail Phillips                                                           
  Rep. Joe Green                                                               
  Rep. Cliff Davidson                                                          
  Rep. Jim Nordlund                                                            
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  HB 78:    "An Act relating to the testimony of children in                   
            certain criminal proceedings; and providing for an                 
            effective date."                                                   
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
  *HB 64:   "An Act creating the crimes of stalking in the                     
            first and second degrees and providing penalties                   
            for their violation; providing a peace officer                     
            with the authority to arrest without a warrant a                   
            person the peace officer has reasonable cause to                   
            believe has committed stalking; relating to the                    
            release before trial of a person accused of                        
            stalking; prohibiting the suspension of imposition                 
            of sentence of a person convicted of stalking;                     
            relating to the crime of assault in the third                      
            degree; and providing for an effective date."                      
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD                                                     
                                                                               
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
                                                                               
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  RENA BUKOVICH                                                                
  Legislative Aide                                                             
  Rep. Eileen MacLean                                                          
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Capitol Building, Room 507                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  465-4833                                                             
  Position Statement:  Spoke on behalf of prime sponsor                        
                       of HB 78                                                
                                                                               
  MARGOT KNUTH                                                                 
  Assistant Attorney General                                                   
  Criminal Division                                                            
  Department of Law                                                            
  P.O. Box 110300                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                    
  Phone:  465-3428                                                             
  Position Statement:  Discussed HB 78 and HB 64                               
                                                                               
  REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY                                                          
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Capitol Building, Room 104                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone: 465-4919                                                              
  Position Statement:  Prime Sponsor of HB 64                                  
                                                                               
  LAURE KNOPP                                                                  
  P.O. Box 794                                                                 
  Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                 
  Phone:  895-4150                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  LEE ANN LUCAS                                                                
  Special Assistant                                                            
  Department of Public Safety                                                  
  P.O. Box 111200                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0200                                                    
  Phone:  465-4322                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  SUSAN PARKES                                                                 
  Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                              
  1031 W. 4th Avenue, Suite 200                                                
  Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                      
  Phone:  269-5132                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  JOEY ADAMS                                                                   
  1381 Hillcrest Drive #102                                                    
  Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                      
  Phone:  272-1381                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  BUCK ADAMS                                                                   
  1381 Hillcrest Drive #102                                                    
  Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                      
  Phone:  272-1381                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  ANNE PENCE                                                                   
  P.O. Box 43                                                                  
  Kasilof, Alaska 99610                                                        
  Phone:  262-2751                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  MARCIA MCKENZIE                                                              
  Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                              
  Department of Public Safety                                                  
  P.O. Box 111200                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0200                                                    
  Phone:  465-4356                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  CINDY SMITH                                                                  
  Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                       
  419 Sixth Street                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  586-3650                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  ELIZABETH CUADRA                                                             
  P.O. Box 33678                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99803                                                         
  Phone:  789-2084,  586-3340                                                  
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  HEATHER FLYNN                                                                
  Executive Director                                                           
  Abused Women's Aid in Crisis (AWAIC)                                         
  100 West 13th Avenue                                                         
  Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                      
  Phone:  279-9581                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  ROBERT LAUX                                                                  
  P.O. Box 92331                                                               
  Anchorage, Alaska 99509                                                      
  Phone:  275-3822                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  SUSAN STEGE                                                                  
  Standing Together Against Rape (STAR)                                        
  1057 Fireweed                                                                
  Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                      
  Phone:  276-7273                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  SHIRLEY WARNER, Captain                                                      
  Anchorage Police Department                                                  
  4501 South Bragaw                                                            
  Anchorage, Alaska 99507                                                      
  Phone:  786-8558                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 64                                         
                                                                               
  DEBORAH LUPER                                                                
  Legislative Aide                                                             
  Senator Loren Leman                                                          
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Capitol Building, Room 113                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  465-2095                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported the concept of HB 64                          
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB  78                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: TESTIMONY OF MINORS IN CRIMINAL TRIALS                          
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACLEAN,Toohey,Nicholia                        
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to the testimony of children in                      
  certain criminal proceedings; and providing for an effective                 
  date."                                                                       
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/22/93       129    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/22/93       130    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  02/08/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/08/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/10/93       287    (H)   HES RPT  7DP                                     
  02/10/93       287    (H)   DP: KOTT,VEZEY,BUNDE,G.DAVIS                     
  02/10/93       287    (H)   DP: TOOHEY, NICHOLIA, BRICE                      
  02/10/93       287    (H)   -2 ZERO FNS (DPS, ADM) 2/10/93                   
  02/10/93       312    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): NICHOLIA                           
  02/19/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB  64                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: ANTI-STALKING LAW                                               
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) TOOHEY,Phillips,Olberg,                        
  Ulmer,Hudson,Porter,B.Davis,Mackie,Carney                                    
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act creating the crimes of stalking in the first                  
  and second degrees and providing penalties for their                         
  violation; providing a peace officer with the authority to                   
  arrest without a warrant a person the peace officer has                      
  reasonable cause to believe has committed stalking; relating                 
  to the release before trial of a person accused of stalking;                 
  and prohibiting the suspension of imposition of sentence of                  
  a person convicted of stalking."                                             
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/15/93        74    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/15/93        74    (H)   JUDICIARY, FINANCE                               
  01/29/93       183    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): PORTER                             
  02/01/93       201    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): B.DAVIS                            
  02/03/93       223    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): MACKIE                             
  02/15/93       351    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): CARNEY                             
  02/19/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 93-16, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER called the House Judiciary Committee meeting                 
  to order at 1:22 p.m. on Friday, February 19, 1993.  A                       
  quorum was present.                                                          
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that the meeting was being                         
  teleconferenced.  He stated that HB 64, Anti-Stalking Law                    
  and HB 78, Testimony of Minors in Criminal Trials, were on                   
  the calendar.  He called Rena Bukovich of Rep. Eileen                        
  MacLean's office to come forward and address the committee                   
  regarding HB 78.                                                             
                                                                               
  HB 78 - TESTIMONY OF MINORS IN CRIMINAL TRIALS                               
                                                                               
  Number 033                                                                   
                                                                               
  RENA BUKOVICH, AIDE TO REP. EILEEN MACLEAN, prime sponsor of                 
  HB 78, read Rep. MacLean's testimony into the record.  She                   
  said that the purpose of HB 78 was to protect children under                 
  the age of 16 from appearing as witnesses in criminal                        
  proceedings.  She said that under current law, a court could                 
  require that the testimony of a child victim or witness be                   
  taken via closed-circuit television or through one-way                       
  mirrors if it was determined that requiring a child to                       
  testify under normal procedures would cause the inability of                 
  the child to testify.  She noted that current law allowed                    
  these special procedures to be used only for children under                  
  the age of 13; HB 78 would allow the court to extend these                   
  procedures to cover children under the age of 16.                            
                                                                               
  MS. BUKOVICH said that the confrontation clause in the                       
  constitution required a defendant to meet her or his                         
  accuser, except in special cases.  She added that the U.S.                   
  Supreme Court had upheld limits to the right of                              
  confrontation, as long as the decision to use special                        
  procedures rested with the court.  She stated that other                     
  states used a range of ages, from 10 to 16, at which special                 
  court procedures could no longer be used.                                    
                                                                               
  MS. BUKOVICH noted that HB 78 contained a retroactivity                      
  clause in which crimes committed before the bill's passage,                  
  but not yet prosecuted, would be subject to the new law.                     
                                                                               
  Number 085                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN asked if the only change made by HB 78 was                        
  raising the age by three years.                                              
                                                                               
  MS. BUKOVICH said that was correct.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 096                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARGOT KNUTH, of the DEPARTMENT OF LAW, told the committee                   
  that there were few circumstances where the special court                    
  procedures were used.  However, she noted, in these few                      
  circumstances, the use of the special procedures was very                    
  important.  She said HB 78 would increase the Department of                  
  Law's flexibility.                                                           
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH commented that questions regarding a defendant's                   
  right to confront her or his accuser versus the availability                 
  of a witness to testify had been addressed by the U.S.                       
  Supreme Court.  She stated that the use of special                           
  procedures for children under the age of 13 had already been                 
  approved by the Alaska Court of Appeals and expressed an                     
  opinion that changing the age to 16 would not result in any                  
  problems.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 139                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN mentioned that legislation reducing the age at                    
  which a juvenile could be tried for an adult crime had been                  
  introduced.  He expressed a concern that the provisions of                   
  HB 78 could contradict the provisions of the other                           
  legislation.  He asked if many children would benefit from                   
  HB 78.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 169                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH replied that the special procedures were most                      
  often used with children who were victims of sexual abuse.                   
  She said that it was conceivable to her that children aged                   
  14, 15 or 16 who had been sexually abused might be unable to                 
  testify in the presence of a defendant.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 195                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS reiterated Rep. Green's question about a                       
  possible conflict between lowering the age at which a                        
  juvenile could be tried for an adult crime and the                           
  provisions of HB 78.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 205                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH said that she saw no such conflict.  She said that                 
  the law treated victims and perpetrators differently, and                    
  that there was no single "age of majority" in our society.                   
                                                                               
  Number 235                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that HB 78 did not cover those people                  
  charged with crimes, but just witnesses and victims.                         
                                                                               
  Number 242                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN moved that the committee pass out HB 78 with a                    
  zero fiscal note and with individual recommendations.                        
  Hearing no objections to the motion, CHAIRMAN PORTER ordered                 
  that HB 78 be moved out of the Judiciary Committee.                          
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that HB 64 was the next item of                        
  business before the committee and called Rep. Cynthia                        
  Toohey, the bill's sponsor, to address the committee.                        
  HB 64 - ANTI-STALKING LAW                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 261                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 64, cited                           
  statistics and studies relating to female murder victims.                    
  She said that California had passed the nation's first anti-                 
  stalking law in 1990, and 30 other states had since followed                 
  suit.  She said that the laws were the result of stalking                    
  victims' frustration with law enforcement officials'                         
  inability to intervene prior to an outright attack on a                      
  victim.                                                                      
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said that HB 64 had been modeled after the state                 
  of Michigan's law.  Since its introduction, she had been                     
  working with the Department of Law, the Department of Public                 
  Safety, and other entities to address concerns.  She noted                   
  that the committee members had before them a proposed                        
  committee substitute that incorporated changes resulting                     
  from that work.  She indicated that the draft committee                      
  substitute was supported by the Department of Law, the                       
  Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault, the Homer                   
  Police Department, and the Anchorage Police Department.                      
                                                                               
  Number 320                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that the bill before the committee                 
  was the committee substitute which Rep. Toohey had                           
  mentioned.  In addition, he noted that the committee would                   
  address a number of minor amendments to that committee                       
  substitute.  He indicated his intention to not pass the bill                 
  out of committee immediately, but to hold the bill until the                 
  new amendments could be incorporated.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 335                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT moved to adopt the blank committee substitute as                   
  the document which the committee would be working on.                        
                                                                               
  Hearing no objection, CHAIRMAN PORTER adopted the blank                      
  committee substitute as the vehicle that the committee would                 
  be addressing.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 341                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked Rep. Toohey if she had a document                        
  outlining the changes between the original HB 64 and the                     
  committee substitute.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 349                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said that she did have such a document.                          
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked that a copy of the document be provided                  
  to each committee member.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 353                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH called HB 64 a very effective tool for the                         
  Department of Law.  She noted that the law would allow the                   
  state to take action before a serious tragedy occurred.  She                 
  mentioned instances in which women had called police because                 
  they were scared, and the police could do nothing.  She said                 
  that HB 64 would allow police to intervene in situations                     
  earlier than they currently were able to.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 360                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH stated that changes requested by the Department of                 
  Law and embodied in the work draft involved elements of the                  
  offense.  She said the offense described in HB 64 resembled                  
  existing offenses in Alaska law, but filled a gap in current                 
  law.  She noted that the offense described in HB 64 drew                     
  upon Alaska's criminal code and would be comprehensible to                   
  judges, defenders, and prosecutors.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 375                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Ms. Knuth to give a layman's                           
  definition of the elements of HB 64.                                         
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH said that HB 64 addressed repeated acts directed                   
  against a person that would recklessly place that person in                  
  fear of death or serious physical injury.  She said stalking                 
  differed from existing assault laws in that assault laws                     
  required imminence.  She added that warrantless arrests                      
  could be made for stalking.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 443                                                                   
                                                                               
  LAURE KNOPP testified via teleconference from Delta Junction                 
  that she and her family were being stalked by an individual,                 
  and that the state troopers' hands were tied.  She noted the                 
  empathy and frustration of law enforcement officials, but                    
  their powerlessness to act.  Because she lived in a rural                    
  area, she added, law enforcement officers would be unable to                 
  respond quickly enough to a situation of imminent danger.                    
  She said that each area of nonconsensual conduct delineated                  
  in HB 64 had been committed by the individual stalking her.                  
                                                                               
  Number 474                                                                   
                                                                               
  LEE ANN LUCAS, from the DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, said                    
  that HB 64 was a needed addition to the Alaska criminal                      
  code.  She noted that the department had three concerns with                 
  the bill.  First, they thought that the definition of                        
  "family member" on page 2 should be broadened to include                     
  someone in a "dating, courtship, or engagement relationship                  
  with the victim."  Second, she said the definition on page                   
  2, line 26, was unclear as to whether it would apply to the                  
  family of a victim's spouse.  Finally, she said the                          
  department was concerned that the term "immediate family"                    
  used on page 3, line 26, was unclear.                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER indicated to committee members that the                      
  changes mentioned by Ms. Lucas had already been noted and                    
  would be included in a group of amendments that would be                     
  included in a revised draft of the bill.                                     
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS commented that it was important to have a                      
  definition of "family member" in the statute.                                
                                                                               
  Number 535                                                                   
                                                                               
  SUSAN PARKES, a member of the COUNCIL ON DOMESTIC VIOLENCE                   
  AND SEXUAL ASSAULT, voiced the council's strong support of                   
  HB 64 via teleconference from Anchorage.  She noted that the                 
  group had already submitted a position paper, and that she                   
  would therefore keep her comments brief.  She mentioned the                  
  gap in current law that HB 64 would fill.  Ms. Parkes noted                  
  the frustration currently experienced by victims,                            
  prosecutors, and the police.  She said HB 64 would allow                     
  police to take action before a situation became violent.                     
                                                                               
  Number 580                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. PARKES said the bill's authorization for police to make                  
  warrantless arrests was an important feature of the bill.                    
  She also noted the importance to prosecutors and police                      
  officers of labeling the crime "stalking."  She indicated                    
  that the council supported the changes made to the original                  
  bill, but suggested that a provision be added to the bill                    
  that if a stalker was caught with a weapon, a felony would                   
  be committed.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 603                                                                   
                                                                               
  JOEY ADAMS testified via teleconference from Anchorage that                  
  she and her family were the victims of a stalker.  She                       
  stated that her husband was an Anchorage police officer,                     
  which did not deter the stalker.  She commented that she                     
  knew that her stalker carried a weapon, and she was always                   
  afraid, and he was always there.  Ms. Adams said that the                    
  police could do nothing in response.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 618                                                                   
                                                                               
  OFFICER BUCK ADAMS, the husband of Joey Adams, testified via                 
  teleconference from Anchorage.  He stated that he felt his                   
  perspective on stalking was unique in that he had been a                     
  police officer for 18 years and was also a stalking victim.                  
  He gave examples of the kind of activity his stalker had                     
  engaged in and continued to engage in.  He mentioned the                     
  constant fear that he and his family endured as a result of                  
  the stalker's activities.  He strongly urged passage of HB
  64.  He noted his concern about the law's definition of                      
  "fear."                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 665                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER commented that he also felt that the                         
  definition of "fear" should be discussed.  He asked Officer                  
  Adams if the bill's other provisions met the circumstances                   
  that the Adams family faced.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 670                                                                   
                                                                               
  OFFICER ADAMS responded that he felt the provisions of HB 64                 
  would address his situation, except for the constant,                        
  nagging character defamation that his stalker committed.                     
                                                                               
  Number 680                                                                   
                                                                               
  ANNE PENCE, testifying via teleconference from                               
  Kenai/Soldotna, expressed her support for HB 64.  As a                       
  former stalking victim, she said that she could attest to                    
  the need for an anti-stalking law.  She said that law                        
  enforcement personnel traditionally either did not believe a                 
  victim or had no legal recourse.  She suggested that                         
  notification of victims when stalkers were released from                     
  custody, and bail limitations, be added to HB 64.                            
                                                                               
  Number 700                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that under current law, victims of                     
  this type of offense were notified when a perpetrator was                    
  released.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 716                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARCIA MCKENZIE, from the COUNCIL ON DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND                   
  SEXUAL ASSAULT, reiterated the council's support for HB 64.                  
                                                                               
  Number 727                                                                   
                                                                               
  CINDY SMITH, from the ALASKA NETWORK ON DOMESTIC VIOLENCE                    
  AND SEXUAL ASSAULT, said that a fundamental gap now existed                  
  in the laws pertaining to victims of domestic violence and                   
  sexual assault.  She stated that passage of an anti-stalking                 
  law was the network's number one legislative priority for                    
  this year.  She cited statistics on domestic violence,                       
  sexual assault, and stalking.  She said that laws similar to                 
  HB 64 were on the books in over half of the states in this                   
  country.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MS. SMITH commented that her organization, victims and                       
  police officers all knew what stalking often led to, but                     
  were powerless to stop it.  Restraining orders, she noted,                   
  provided only limited assistance to stalking victims.  She                   
  mentioned her support of an amendment mentioned earlier                      
  regarding classifying the offense as a felony if the stalker                 
  possessed a weapon.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 740                                                                   
                                                                               
  ELIZABETH CUADRA, from Juneau, cited two incidences of                       
  stalking that involved her and her family.  She said that                    
  she had been the victim of a stalker in the 1950s, and her                   
  teenage daughter had been stalked during the 1970s.                          
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-16, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. CUADRA cited a current stalking case that she knew of in                 
  Juneau in which a woman had been stalked by another woman                    
  for more than a year.  She said that she hoped the committee                 
  would bear in mind the fear instilled in stalking victims.                   
                                                                               
  Number 041                                                                   
                                                                               
  HEATHER FLYNN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR of the ABUSED WOMEN'S AID                  
  IN CRISIS (AWAIC) WOMEN'S SHELTER in Anchorage, testified                    
  via teleconference from Anchorage about a former shelter                     
  client who was a stalking victim.  Despite two restraining                   
  orders against her husband, she and her children experienced                 
  great emotional and physical abuse at the hands of her                       
  husband.  She expressed an opinion that, had an anti-                        
  stalking law been on the books at the time, the woman's                      
  husband would have been stopped before his behavior became                   
  as violent as it had.  She said that the police needed the                   
  tool of an anti-stalking law.  She urged the committee to                    
  support HB 64.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 060                                                                   
                                                                               
  ROBERT LAUX testified via teleconference from Anchorage in                   
  support of HB 64.  He thanked Rep. Toohey for introducing                    
  the legislation.  He stated that he was currently a stalking                 
  victim.  He noted that his stalker was a woman with whom he                  
  had been involved in a relationship.  He said that he felt                   
  that he had no recourse against the stalker.  He commented                   
  that he thought the bill should be expanded to include                       
  individuals involved in dating relationships with the                        
  victim, and not just the victim's family members.                            
                                                                               
  Number 223                                                                   
                                                                               
  SUSAN STEGE, a counselor from STANDING TOGETHER AGAINST RAPE                 
  (STAR), testified from Anchorage via teleconference in                       
  support of HB 64.  She said that the bill would help many of                 
  STAR's clients.  She noted her support of an amendment                       
  whereby if a stalker carried a weapon, stalking would be                     
  classified as a felony.  She reminded the committee of the                   
  long-term emotional scars that stalking victims suffer from                  
  and suggested that this issue be addressed in HB 64 as well.                 
                                                                               
  Number 250                                                                   
                                                                               
  CAPTAIN SHIRLEY WARNER, of the ANCHORAGE POLICE DEPARTMENT,                  
  testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of                    
  HB 64.  She said HB 64 would enable police officers to take                  
  quick and sure action in volatile and life-threatening                       
  situations.  She stated that police officers were often                      
  forced to tell victims that nothing could be done about a                    
  stalker.  She cited a recent case in Anchorage in which an                   
  officer was only able to charge a stalker with disorderly                    
  conduct.  Aside from protecting victims, Capt. Warner said                   
  HB 64 would send a clear message to the people that they                     
  could not violate the freedom of another individual.                         
                                                                               
  Number 296                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER mentioned the fact that HB 64 contained a                    
  provision allowing the police to arrest stalkers without a                   
  warrant.  He noted that the general arrest laws provided                     
  that if a misdemeanor had been committed, an officer could                   
  only make an arrest on the spot if the misdemeanor occurred                  
  in the officer's presence.  In a felony case, he added, an                   
  officer only needed probable cause in order to make an                       
  arrest.                                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER said that at the present time, an officer                    
  could make an arrest for a misdemeanor based on probable                     
  cause in a domestic violence/assault case.  He said HB 64                    
  would make stalking another crime for which warrantless                      
  arrests could be made.                                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that committee staff would work to                     
  incorporate suggested amendments into the proposed committee                 
  substitute for HB 64 and that the bill would be back before                  
  the committee as soon as that had occurred.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 328                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said that she did not object to any of the                       
  proposed amendments, but she encouraged the committee to act                 
  on the bill quickly in order that current stalking victims                   
  be protected as soon as possible.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 338                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said that he hoped to discuss HB 64 further so                     
  that committee members' views would be addressed in the new                  
  committee substitute.  He asked if the bill was establishing                 
  a precedent regarding the period of probation, citing page                   
  6, section (f), of the work draft.                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER said that an amendment addressing the issue                  
  of probation would be incorporated into the proposed                         
  committee substitute.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 386                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS commented that she was a co-sponsor of HB 64,                  
  but she had only heard comments supporting the bill during                   
  the hearing.  She said that she wanted to think about                        
  potential problems with the bill.  She mentioned a                           
  hypothetical situation in which a lovesick teenage boy could                 
  be charged with stalking.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 416                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER called ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL MARGOT                     
  KNUTH to address the committee on potential abuses of the                    
  anti-stalking law.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 420                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH noted that earlier versions of HB 64 had left                      
  others uneasy for reasons similar to those Rep. Phillips                     
  mentioned.  She commented that the current version of HB 64                  
  specifically addressed Rep. Phillips' concern by creating                    
  the crime of stalking in the context of "recklessly placing                  
  another person in fear of death or physical injury."  She                    
  said that this language would separate out the "lovesick                     
  puppies" from the stalkers.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 446                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Ms. Knuth to speak about what criteria                   
  would be used to determine whether someone knowingly engaged                 
  in such conduct.  Additionally, he asked who would judge the                 
  behavior.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 455                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH mentioned that criminal law employed different                     
  standards for conduct and for circumstances.  For conduct,                   
  she said that it was typical that a person's conduct must be                 
  "knowing."  She explained that a person under anesthesia                     
  would not have acted "knowingly."  As to who would judge                     
  that, she said that all members of the legal society, from a                 
  police officer to the judge and jury, would judge.                           
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH commented that in terms of circumstances, HB 64                    
  referred to "recklessly."  She said that reckless behavior,                  
  in statute, referred to a person having reason to know that                  
  a circumstance existed and disregarded that circumstance.                    
  She said that this was particularly relevant in stalking                     
  cases, where the stalker often knew his or her victim, and                   
  used that knowledge to make his or her conduct so                            
  intimidating.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 492                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Ms. Knuth to offer a specific example of                 
  someone who would have "reason to know" and also asked her                   
  if a drunk person would have "reason to know."                               
                                                                               
  Number 507                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH responded that the law addressed intoxication by                   
  saying that a person who was unaware of conduct or                           
  circumstances that they would have been aware of when not                    
  intoxicated, would be held to have acted knowingly.  In                      
  other words, alcohol would not be an excuse for acting                       
  knowingly.  With respect to acting recklessly, or being                      
  aware of and consciously disregarding a substantial and                      
  unjustifiable risk that one is causing fear to another                       
  person, Ms. Knuth said that she was not a good person to                     
  come up with stalking examples.                                              
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH said that traditional stalking would include                       
  leaving threatening communications, following a victim, and                  
  leaving items for a victim, as part of a plan to torment                     
  someone.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 544                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON said that everyone knew what stalking was when                 
  they saw it, but questioned how they could define it in law.                 
  He said that he supported an anti-stalking bill that did not                 
  overdo it, but at the same time gave victims necessary                       
  protections.  He asked Ms. Knuth about her earlier use of                    
  the term "successive approximations."                                        
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH replied that she had been referring to the                         
  continual development and amendment of criminal laws, with                   
  the goal of perfecting laws so that they neither                             
  overaddressed nor underaddressed situations.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 571                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Ms. Knuth what excesses could result                     
  from HB 64.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 577                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH commented that HB 64 was a very carefully tailored                 
  bill and she did not see the bill as lending itself to                       
  prosecution excesses.  In terms of where there might be a                    
  problem, she noted that a person could call the police                       
  thinking that they were the victim of stalking and the                       
  police would not view the crime as stalking.  She added that                 
  she did not believe that the bill would result in improper                   
  arrests or prosecutions.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 604                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Ms. Knuth to point out parameters in the                 
  bill that ensured that it was not overbroad.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 606                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH said that the phrase, "in fear of death or                         
  physical injury," was a key parameter in the bill that                       
  protected against the law being abused.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 616                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN said that although he was in favor of HB 64, he                   
  would play the devil's advocate.  He said many of the                        
  criteria outlined in HB 64 would fall under the category of                  
  assault or battery.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 633                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH noted that the crime of stalking was a combination                 
  of the traditional elements found in the crimes of assault                   
  and battery.  However, she noted that the exact combination                  
  of elements did not yet exist in law and needed to be added.                 
                                                                               
  Number 653                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN asked Ms. Knuth about the language on page 3,                     
  line 25, of the work draft.  He also expressed a concern                     
  about potential abuses of the provision that nonconsensual                   
  contact included a person appearing within the sight of                      
  another person.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 678                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH replied that three elements were needed to                         
  constitute stalking, and a person appearing within the sight                 
  of another person was only one of those three elements.                      
                                                                               
  Number 700                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN asked who the burden of proof would be on in a                    
  stalking situation.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 707                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH noted that there was a general consensus on what                   
  behavior constituted stalking.  She agreed that it was                       
  difficult to write a law that was unequivocally tailored to                  
  do nothing more than what a drafter wanted it to do, but                     
  felt that HB 64 came remarkably close to achieving its                       
  desired goal.                                                                
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-17, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH also noted that HB 64 contained some language that                 
  was not a change in law, but rather a simple move of a                       
  statute from the terroristic threatening statutes to the                     
  assault statutes.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 026                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN expressed a concern that language relating to                     
  deadly weapons was unfair due to differences in humans' size                 
  and their corresponding abilities to inflict harm on other                   
  humans, with or without deadly weapons.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 051                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH said that there were cases in which the Court of                   
  Appeals had ruled that feet could be a dangerous instrument.                 
  However, she noted that the present criminal law generally                   
  made distinctions based on whether or not a weapon was                       
  present.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 079                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND asked Ms. Knuth if the citation on the bottom                  
  of page 1 referred to temporary restraining orders.                          
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH responded that she believed that was the case.                     
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND asked Ms. Knuth if a person had to be in                       
  violation of a temporary restraining order in order to be                    
  guilty of first-degree stalking and why that was not true                    
  for second-degree stalking.                                                  
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH indicated that violation of a temporary                            
  restraining order was part of first-degree stalking.  She                    
  stated that the misdemeanor offense of stalking in the                       
  second degree occurred when someone recklessly placed                        
  another person in fear of death or serious physical injury.                  
  Doing the same thing when a temporary restraining order was                  
  in place constituted the felony crime of first-degree                        
  stalking.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 119                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND asked if arrests could be made without a                       
  warrant for stalking in the first degree.                                    
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH said that because stalking in the first degree was                 
  a felony, a warrantless arrest was possible.                                 
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND asked why suspended impositions of sentence                    
  were disallowed for stalking crimes.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 135                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH stated that a suspended imposition of sentence                     
  allowed a defendant to have a conviction taken off of her or                 
  his record.  She added that it was a policy call as to where                 
  the line should be drawn regarding crimes that had suspended                 
  imposition of sentence and those that did not.  Regardless                   
  of suspended impositions of sentences, she noted, the police                 
  would always know about arrests for any offenses.                            
                                                                               
  Number 173                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND asked if the lack of suspended impositions of                  
  sentence was due to the likelihood that stalkers would                       
  repeat the offense.                                                          
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH said she believed that this was the belief behind                  
  that particular provision of HB 64.                                          
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that one more person wanted to                     
  testify on HB 64.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 181                                                                   
                                                                               
  DEBORAH LUPER, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO SEN. LOREN LEMAN,                         
  testified in support of the concept of HB 64.  She mentioned                 
  that Sen. Leman, for whom she worked, had sponsored a                        
  similar bill, SB 22.  She mentioned her concerns about                       
  several portions of HB 64.  She said that she would like to                  
  see a definition of "repeated" in the bill.                                  
                                                                               
  MS. LUPER mentioned a hypothetical situation at the Greens                   
  Creek Mine in which HB 64 could be abused.  She advocated                    
  changing language from "physical injury" to "serious                         
  physical injury."  She expressed an opinion that "fear"                      
  should be defined in the bill as well.                                       
                                                                               
  MS. LUPER also commented that the notion of delivering an                    
  object onto property should be expounded upon.  She cited a                  
  hypothetical example in which an estranged couple jointly                    
  owned property and the husband delivered an object to the                    
  property, although he was under a court order to not be                      
  there when his wife was there.  She said that the bills                      
  should be tightened up so that innocent acts would not be                    
  prosecuted.                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER responded that the committee would look into                 
  the issues Ms. Luper had raised.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 277                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON referred to Ms. Luper's example of a husband                   
  delivering an object to property that he jointly owned with                  
  his wife.  He asked if there would be an opportunity for a                   
  person to ask for permission of the court to make such a                     
  delivery.  He added that Ms. Luper had brought up a very                     
  good point.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 290                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER replied that he assumed that a person could                  
  petition the court in that case.                                             
                                                                               
  Seeing that the members had no further questions or points                   
  of discussion, CHAIRMAN PORTER said that the suggested                       
  amendments would be incorporated into the current work draft                 
  as soon as possible.  He added that the bill would be                        
  brought back before the committee as soon as possible.                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER mentioned that there seemed to be a problem                  
  in committee members arriving at committee meetings at 1:00                  
  p.m.  He asked if any of the members had regular commitments                 
  at 3:00 p.m. on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.  Since                     
  starting meetings at 1:00 p.m. seemed to be a problem, he                    
  wondered if it would be better to start meetings at 1:30                     
  p.m.                                                                         
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said that he was on the Health, Education, and                     
  Social Services Committee, which met at 3:00 p.m.                            
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER then asked if members would make a concerted                 
  effort to arrive at 1:00 p.m., particularly when                             
  teleconferences were scheduled.                                              
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER adjourned the meeting at 3:04 p.m.                           

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